Deidre DeJear and I talk farming, debt relief and how rural Iowa has fundamentally changed
And about that 120% debt relief for Black and historically disadvantaged farmers....
I was going to call this “Nerding out with Deidre DeJear about farm policy” because buckle up for a conversation thick with policy talk. Here are a few points I wanted to highlight from DeJear:
“57% on land owned by farmers, they don't find that land, more and more this land is being shifted to other individuals or other corporations. And as farmers continue to retire and decide that they're out of the business, their family is out of the business. I think it's an excellent opportunity for us to figure out more intentional ways to get young people engaged in those processes…”
The other part about it [farming] is that I think we also got to teach that in our urban communities as well. Because just just because an individual is born in urban Iowa, doesn't mean that their heart isn't calling into the country, it doesn't mean that their heart isn't calling them to rural Iowa.
“I'll be honest, the Republicans are doing their job and really selling their actions in such a way that leading people to believe that what they are doing is good for people. But it's not. It's not because we see the harm being caused in our state.”
“…we need a governor when we get those federal resources [ARPA/CARES], who knows how to put those resources to work within the state, rather than using the federal resources to cover the cost of your current staff when it should have already been budgeted for or sending nearly $100 million back to to pay politics with those resources.
And I'm walking into every situation, being my authentic self and a part of my authentic self is I'm suited and booted to serve. We have a governor right now, who's not winning Iowans first rural Iowa is disproportionately being impacted by her decision making, whether it be voting or whether it be the our populations, flatlining. Health care. We see our hospitals closing education, we see our schools closing teachers can't we don't have enough teachers to teach science, I mean, all of these things are not advancing the state. And this has traditionally been a state that has advanced over time because of of our commitment to education, and our commitment to our fellow man. And right now we see a national agenda that's just really taking hold in this state, and it's adding no value.
I originally recorded this interview for note-taking purposes. But, the conversation was so informative I decided to post here as an interview.
Transcript (from Otter ai - which is auto transcribe so some words get mixed up) with time stamps if you feel like jumping around:
Andy Kopsa 00:00
Thank you so much for taking time. So I just wanted to kind of start out. I just have some questions about farming specifically because I had let Victoria know, I'm interested in chatting with you about farming farm specific policy in Iowa, etc. And Black farmers and like socially disadvantaged farmers. So I want that to be our conversation today. But I wonder if I could throw in a couple at the end about disability if that's okay. Okay, whatever, whatever. Let me just, I'll crack into it. I wanted to talk to you about cattle. My dad was a row crop farmer, and we had hogs until they get to be too much. And it's like, at least in my experience, you kind of grow up raising cattle. I don't know what your experience was like, did you just decide you know what, I really want cattle or do you come from a farming family? Or how did that happen?
Ms. DeJear 00:50
Yeah, so I'm originally from Mississippi and my family were sharecroppers, they did cotton primarily, and some other things. And so when I grew up, you know, I wasn't very far I was, was born in the city. So I'm a city girl.
Andy Kopsa 01:00 Where in Mississippi, and Jackson. Okay, I did a lot of work in Jackson. I was in Mississippi quite a bit and doing some work on comprehensive sexual education, Mississippi anyway. Yeah. Oh, that's a topic for it. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. All day long.
Ms. DeJear 01:25
And so yeah, on my mother's side, a great deal of my family still live in rural and still do live in rural Mississippi. And so it seemed like every weekend, we were out in the country for some reason. But needless to say, I never connected my life with rural life, as far as me actually, you know, choosing to walk down that path. And it wasn't until I met my husband that I was reintroduced to just the regular everyday rural life because his family, their cattle ranchers, that's what they've been doing. For several generations, his great grandfather, his grandfather, was able to acquire some land. And he kind of had to do it in a very low key way. His mentor, essentially told him, I'm going to sell you this land, but what I need to happen is that you tell people that you're leasing it, right. And so that's how his family got into cattle. And so Marvin and I, probably about five years or so into our marriage decided that he wanted to be a part of his family's family's legacy there. And that's when we decided to purchase our first herd, you know, it was, you know, we are not farmers by any stretch of the, you know, we've not enough to get our hands dirty. And, you know, we're engaged to some degree, but our his family really handles the brunt of the work. And that is there, like, it is not our livelihood at this point in time, but we understand what it looks like
Andy Kopsa 02:59
that kind of dovetails into the way that I think about rural, like, I grew up on a farm. You know, I was born into it. My brother took it over after my dad died. You know, all of us daughters are invested. That's how I grew up. But my, my idea of what farming is has expanded. So like when you say things to me, like, you know, you're not farmers by any stretch of the imagination, I would think you're probably just to me as a farm kid, more of a farmer than say, you know, Kim Reynolds was ever a farmer. So so but I mean, but again, that that's that rural sort of crossover, where we think farmers, farmers, farmers, well, rural is different in Iowa Now, rural has changed in Iowa now in so many different ways.
Ms. DeJear 03:48
I tell people I am a woman in Ag.
Andy Kopsa 03:51
I appreciate the background to on the your husband's family and the way they came to farming, you know, and that it had to be sort of on the down low that we're gonna do this.
Ms. DeJear 04:05
Yeah, yeah. It's their land, right. Yeah, it's grown over time, you know, back in the day, they used to people used to go and knock on the door and take aerial photo contests or their, their homestead and there and the house. You can see that family photo aerial photo there. And it's just like I said, it's grown over time, but it's like, you know, when you go to any farmhouse, you'll see that photo.
Andy Kopsa 04:32
My mom's basement, like, over the years. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
KEEPING IT IN THE FAMILY – GENERATIONAL FARMS (INCLUDING HER HUSBANDS CATTLE RANCH – WHERE THEY KEEP THEIR HERD)
Ms. DeJear 04:39
Absolutely. But they stuck to it. And you know, there was question about now that that, you know, it's three, three generations and people who are working the land and his family there was question about whether or not it was going to be a third generation lucky for us. People stuck with it within the family, specific to Marvins brother who is completely committed to it full time, and he's got some uncles that are completely committed to it full time, and it's a family business, right? It literally takes a family to move it forward, and they're gonna stick with it. And I'm happy because it's, it's gonna be good. I mean, we've got two more generations that are coming after my husband. And, you know, I know that it's a goal to make sure they're interested. And a few of them are, that isn't it continues to grow. I'm excited about it. And I just think it's a testament of how we can continue to get those disadvantaged communities plugged into something that they're passionate about. Because it is a true passion. What makes it hard is the financial side of it right now for so many of our farmers of color throughout the entire country.
Andy Kopsa 05:49
Well, and that's a that's another thing, too, is like you have first hand experience with a USDA loan, right with buying your herd I was born into it, I don't have an idea of what that looks like. Because my dad was first generation than my brother, aside from the indigenous population, that is the other side
Ms. DeJear 06:06
of Marvin Marvin family to being an Oklahoma obviously huge Native population throughout the entire state, and his grandmother is native as well. And so that that part was fluid, there were some intersections that happened happens quite a bit throughout, you know, Southern, just Oklahoma in general. And that was a big part of
Andy Kopsa 06:27
it, you make an excellent point that you need a family, or it's going to go out of the family. I'm lucky that my nephew was born a 60 year old farmer and is going to take it over otherwise, I don't know, what would have happened after my brother moves on. How do you see how do you see incentivizing Iowa kids of color women, young girls, to to take part in these government programs that are designed for new farmers.
Ms. DeJear 06:59
growing up in high school, we had FFA and things along those lines. And I think that those programs are critical, and they do a lot within our rural communities. And I think as much as we can continue to bolster those types of programs, it'll, it'll add tremendous value to those kids who are thinking about going into farming. You know, I think we really have to focus on meeting people where they are at.
The other part about it is that I think we also got to teach that in our urban communities as well. Because just just because an individual is born in urban Iowa, doesn't mean that their heart isn't calling into the country, it doesn't mean that their heart isn't calling them to rule Iowa. And I want to make sure that, you know, we have those opportunities that are available for our young kids. It's hard, like right, getting into it when you when you have no it's like being a small business owner, right? If you have no direction, and no mentor, no one that can help you walk through the process teach you about the lessons learned in the beginning, you are going to face barrier after barrier, let alone the systemic barriers that exist. But you know, there's work that can can be done there. But it has to be intentional. Yeah, it definitely has to be intentional.
I mean, just looking at some of the data that I think is just kind of alarming within the state of Iowa. And I'm going to look at this 57% of land owned by farmers back in 2017. Yeah, 57% on land owned by farmers, they don't find that land, more and more this land is being shifted to other individuals or other corporations. And as farmers continue to retire and decide that they're out of the business, their family is out of the business. I think it's an excellent opportunity for us to figure out more intentional ways to get young people engaged in those processes, and to get communities of color engaged in those processes to be able to acquire that land. But we've got to be intentional about it. I know that there are USDA programs, and then their state programs that exist, but a program can exist and do nothing. We got over $195 million from federal government to close the gap and evictions. And we barely spent any of the money, right. And so it's not enough to just have the program or the resource available. We've got to make some intentional connection. Think that that that can happen. And
Andy Kopsa 09:33
I was doing some research on some data. There's been like a slight uptick in urban farming in Iowa.
Ms. DeJear 09:39
vertical farming and aquaponics and things along those lines. And garden communities are funding those urban gardens getting USDA dollars, but we've even had like nonprofits, the United Way, funding urban community garden, and things of that nature. So there's some there's several different resources that people can do. Have, those aren't very expensive. And so those there are several resources that are out there for that some municipalities are investing in it. But I do know that there are some resources available through the USDA there too. And I will make one other point. I think regular everyday people make this assumption that just because you live in a rural community means you no harm. That's the other part of the missing piece. So, you know, when we're in these rural communities, I think it's also important for people who are already living in the rural communities, to have opportunities to acquire land within their community. So if they lived in town, you know, if they've, if the courthouse was 10 minutes away from their house, perhaps they would be interested in living 45 minutes out of town, and having an acreage and farming, whether it's livestock or farms, whatever, I think it's also important to make those connections to
Andy Kopsa 10:56
you may not be working on a farm, but you might be driving to a processing plant, or you may be driving to a seed plant. Or you may be, you know, and so to me, it's like how do you make those connections to people, more people live in, in rural areas that drive, you know, an hour there and back to go to work somewhere else. Pharma is a term that is close to my heart, but I'm like, what else? What's another way to say that, you know, what's another way because it doesn't just stand for rural in my mind.
Ms. DeJear 11:26
It's an integrative process. Now, I can't speak for other states. But just traveling throughout the state, everybody has a part to play. In, in agriculture. Now. It's not agriculture is not just defined by what rural Iowa produces. And what happens in rural Iowa. Agriculture is is one of the biggest footprints throughout this entire state. And, you know, even though there might be some degrees of separation between me being in Des Moines, and and a farm and Woodbury County, there is still a connection. Because the process has had to make those connections.
Andy Kopsa 12:07
You mentioned Woodbury County, so I'm thinking northwest Iowa was a hard place for Democrats to connect with. And I think, do you think that the fact that you're from Des Moines is more of an issue, or that you're a woman who happens to be Black could be a bigger issue in rural, like, Randy Feenstra, land,
Ms. DeJear 12:33
you know, Black and a woman, or living in Des Moines or wearing red that day, I walk into every situation knowing with with a mindset that this person may not be supportive of what I'm doing. So what can I do to show them that I'm supportive of who they are and what they're doing? I don't walk into any political situation, really diving deep into the identity politics. I'm here to serve. And so when I walk into a situation, I want to know what's going on with you what's going on as much as you're willing to share what what's good. What's the good that's happening in your community right now with the good that's happening with your business? And where do you see room for improvement? I can't change the color of my skin. I can't. I'm not uninterested in changing my gender. Right. I am, who I am. And I'm walking into every situation, being my authentic self and a part of my authentic self is I'm suited and booted to serve. We have a governor right now, who's not winning Iowans first rural Iowa is disproportionately being impacted by her decision making, whether it be voting or whether it be the our populations, flatlining. Health care. We see our hospitals closing education, we see our schools closing teachers can't we don't have enough teachers to teach science, I mean, all of these things are not advancing the state. And this has traditionally been a state that has advanced over time because of of our commitment to education, and our commitment to our fellow man. And right now we see a national agenda that's just really taking hold in this state, and it's adding no value. That's really my approach about it. There will be people who see me who may or may not choose to vote for me without me even opening my mouth, and that is their prerogative. But that doesn't stop me from serving. And so that's really my position as we talk about how race intersects in this process. I know it's a thing, but it's not the thing. And if I allow it to be the thing, I'm done before I started, we were able to get nearly 600,000 votes in that Secretary.
Andy Kopsa 14:49
Oh, yeah, I was looking at people of color right? No, no, for sure not and that's why I asked because I get I get crap for being from Yeah, well, you're from Manhattan.
Ms. DeJear 15:02
Yeah, my here's the thing. The why, why do they care that you're from Manhattan? It's really okay. You have you have something against me. But rather than me focus on that thing that you have against me or that suspicion, that's, you know, going through your mind. I really want to know why. And then so I skipped over that get to the why and address the why I hear you. I see you, I get you. I don't get it all. But I understand that you are an integral part of the ag process. I understand that that you are an island and I want this thing to do good by, I'll be honest, the Republicans are doing their job and really selling their actions in such a way that leading people to believe that what they are doing is good for people. But it's not. It's not because we see the harm being caused in our state, rather than address education in the state. They decided to pass a bill that allows for charter schools. What does that do? Right, the harm that's been caused since then, in Cedar Rapids right now they're looking for more than 250 jobs. We had a high school that had a close say, Now, they had a close one day because they didn't have enough teachers, or subs.
Andy Kopsa 16:14
Oh, I think I saw that. I think I saw that.
Ms. DeJear 16:17
Yes. And so look at all of them fussing about what bathroom people go to doesn't help the bottom line right now today.
LOAN FORGIVENESS FOR BLACK/HISTORICALLY DISADVANTAGED FARMERS
Andy Kopsa 16:25
And so I do want to ask you about the whole roadblock that has been thrown up against the American rescue plan act, and 120% loan forgiveness to socially disadvantaged Black Latina women farmers, and why that is getting such voracious pushback when it comes to loan forgiveness when it comes to this 120% which I think is vital to AG overall, if you want to put it like ag or farmers or whatever. What's the possible reason that that's not going through? If you say you're for farmers, then how can you not say that you're for that?
Ms. DeJear 17:04
There's there's no good reason there? There literally is no good reason. You know, I started this conversation and saying farming is not my livelihood. For so many farmers throughout this country, especially farmers of color that that is their their livelihood. And Black farmers have led the charge to try to get some type, some type of program to help remedy the years and years of economic and systemic discrimination that had been happening among farmers of color. And so here we are Black farmers like this. But its impacting all farmers of color throughout the entire country. And someone decides that it's discriminatory. Well, this was based on and in large part to the fact that from my vantage point that the straw that broke the camel's back was the fact that Black Farmers only got point 1% of the ARPA funding. And if we really think about the the American rescue plan, and how it has evolved over time, what what happened to Black Farmers was very, very similar to what happened to disadvantaged business owners waiting for work filing for their PPP. In the very beginning, you have these large corporations come in and try to scoop up as much money as they could. And so the small business through the small and through SBA, and what the federal government, the Department of Treasury, was doing to make sure that small businesses were thriving throughout this pandemic was they edited along the way, they created other mini programs along the way to make sure that the least among us, were getting the services that they needed. Because we saw early on that that very few Black small businesses, very few Latinx small businesses, were getting these federal resources. And it was never the intention of the large, larger folks to soup up as much money as they did, and leave the smaller folks out to dry. And so this from my vantage point program is very similar as the A is editing along the way to make sure that some of the systemic decisions that were made to push money out there to farmers across the country had unintended consequences, and now they're remedying those consequences. And not only will this add value to those commute those those those farmers it's going to add value to those communities in the long run. I mean, the fact of the matter is, and Bill said, and I'll even pull it up because I haven't pulled up because I think it's important to say this. He said For generations, socially disadvantaged farmers have struggled to fully succeed due to systemic discrimination, and a cycle of debt and these historical practices. That's the end of his quote, these historical practices have infringe on Black farmers and farmers of color their ability to to you know what One, obtain assets and to grow apps. And we know that growth is fundamental to farming. So these funds have the opportunity to position these farmers to actually grow by alleviating the obligations that they have to the federal government, because again, the federal government has been in the West. So the federal government is basically saying, we're gonna get out of the way, and we're going to give you access to capital, by way of taking away the burden that we put on you. There is literally nothing wrong with that when you see people in disadvantaged situations, because of the system, you have to remedy, right. It's not about bootstraps at this point in time. Because if if person A across the road, didn't get bootstraps, but he got the money that he needed, then Person B across the road should have equity in that. And there was a lack of equity in our processes in dispersing these are our funds. And this, and this can resolve that. And so anybody who stands against it, what I would say, has a very narrow vision of what, of what who is contributing to agriculture actually looks like, and they should widen their vision. But the fact of the matter is, the reason why we're here also, is because, you know, you talk about the loudest folks in the room, the people who have the resources to go to DC, and to lobby when they're making decisions and creating systems because of their narrow vision. disadvantage. Farmers are not a part of that we have to start with how do we help the least among us, and everything else is going to take care of itself, when the least among us isn't in the room when their voice isn't being heard. And the people who are in the room would would rather not even go there, we're gonna continue to attend to have challenges facing folks throughout this entire country that way, and if we learned anything from 2020, is that we need lived experiences and professional experiences in the room when we're trying to problem solve, because this was ARPA was solving a problem, but it also created a problem. Government's remedying it, you need to sit down and put your injunction back in.
Andy Kopsa 22:12
Do you think Vilsack is in a position where he can can or should do anything to talk about this? Or is it because of the injunction? Maybe not?
Ms. DeJear 22:18
I think that injunction makes it tricky. Yeah. But the fact of the matter is, we've got to figure out how to resolve the challenge.
Andy Kopsa 22:25
Is there a state level fix? Because when I think about is like,
Ms. DeJear 22:30
that's abandoned? Yeah. Yeah. The USDA is, well, the most well positioned entity to help resolve this challenge. And we just don't want to do it for Iowa, like we need to remedy this for the entire time. And it's not just going to impact by folks, it's going to impact indigenous folks, it's going to impact like next folks and other disadvantaged farmers. And we, when we remedy that, man, I think it's gonna do a lot for our rural community, we just got to get it done. It's $5 billion, there was over 20 some odd billion dollars in our funds that were distributed, Black folks got 20 million, you know, I don't know what other communities of color got. But right now we know there's about 14,000 to 17,000 farmers out there that can use these resources and the price tag is 5 billion. Let's get it out, get it out to them because they are stuck between a rock and a hard place. And another hard play this will balance the act so that they can compete, not only with the market hit amongst their peers,
Andy Kopsa 23:30
we've been talking a lot of federal policy, which I think is important, but you're running for governor, this is right to be talking about this stuff, because it affects everybody. You know, when I hear Kim Reynolds claim, red states or blue states or getting bailouts, I'm like, You know what, I've got the receipts on Iowa, and you all are getting a red state bail.
Ms. DeJear 23:48
My positioning governor that really how I feel about this is that we need a governor when we get those federal resources, who knows how to put those resources to work within the state, rather than using the federal resources to cover the cost of your current staff when it should have already been budgeted for or sending nearly $100 million back to to pay politics with those resources. You know, as Cindy is doing the hard work to get us aid. We need a governor here that that understands people understands how to put that money to use and also understands and pulling people in that money together that we're actually going to resolve problems with we're going to resolve challenges with it. We're not just putting the money out there to say we did we are just addressing Iowans needs and restoring the fabric of this state that that puts people first
Andy Kopsa 24:39
last questions I do want to ask you is I've disabled Iowans if I could I'm I have a disability and it precludes me from coming back to Iowa because not just because of the health care. But you know, that's the biggest hurdle for me is I can't get health care in state in my home state because there's a thriving marketplace here. There's over 360,000 Iowans who are considered disabled. How does How did the Democrats tap into that massive electorate?
Ms. DeJear 25:13
But you want the secret sauce? I can't even see.
Andy Kopsa 25:17
I mean chrome registry, but access to voting, right? So like, you know, all of those things. How does that look?
Ms. DeJear 25:23
So there's over 300,000 folks in this state with disability who are eligible to vote, and we see about 10% of them turning. That's bad. That's bad because folks with disabilities are grossly impacted bad decision making and poor policies happen in this state. They have a stake in the game, right. But we see a great deal of challenges with that community and their access to the ballot box. When we see a governor right now our current governor who keeps passing voter restriction laws. These are the communities that it's impacting our communities with disabilities, it's also impacting our aging communities as well. They basically reasonably defined who can help someone figure out their way to vote. You know, across the state we see in communities growing more and more, they're living alone, especially in our rural communities, these recent voter restriction laws are disproportionately impacting them. So what I am doing to address this can't change the legislation right now, unfortunately. But what I can do, again, this is a hurdle, an unnecessary one that does not have to exist. Needless to say, we, as people collectively can over come these types of barriers. I hate that we have to, but we can't. And the way we do that is meet people where they are. I have a constituency outreach team. We started that team early on its volunteer base right now. It will be institutionalized very soon within this campaign once we continue to build but we're not waiting until one month, two months before the election, to engage our disadvantaged communities in our in our communities of color throughout the state. We're not waiting. We're doing it now. Just as folks like to prioritize, quote, reliable voters we are prioritizing because it is in prioritize i prioritizing Iowans in the campaign that will bleed into us prioritizing Iowans, as governor in that office, we continue to reach out to those communities. You know, even as we're creating policy, our constituency teams are looking at that policy through the lens of their community if those policy ideas and concepts have unintended consequences that put that those communities monumental steps back that's what we want to avoid and that takes work but work that we're willing to put into as islands and we've done it before we need leadership who best represents the values of island that means all Island and I believe that I have met later